bf4c4 campaign system discussion

[Necromancer]

When the system fails it is always when one army gains momentum and begins to steam roll the other which regardless of the map selection process used, creates the drama, bad morale and complaining.

There is a contradiction here.

There have been ideas floated over the years on how to address this issue.

You don't ask the right questions. Trying to fix it without changing anything. These issues are at the core of the system, you have to look at the basics to tackle it.

There supposed to be a winner at the end, so one army is supposed to gain momentum over the other at some point to win. This is by design. On the other hand over-balancing and you'll end up with an endless campaign.
So maybe the core of the problem is that there is a loosing side?
As i said in the other thread, how the other team takes the loss is up to its General IMO. But maybe we need to find a system without loosers then?

I'm not sure what you mean by the map being the result of bad principles. If you can elaborate I'd like to hear it. The map is nothing more than a tool we use to determine what maps we play on the battle day.

Was the map created randomly? Why there are 50 territories on it? Why 10 theaters? Why 5 connections? And (currently) 16 divisions?

BF3:C4, lasted 14 weeks, 31 maps* out of 42 were played, 73.8%
BF3:C6, lasted 8 weeks, 22 maps out of 50 were played, 44%
BF4:C3, lasted 5 weeks, 21 maps out of 50 were played, 42%

*maps - different map, size or mode.

Since BF3:C4, less then 50% of the maps are played. And thats despite the fact the number of rounds/maps played each battleday has increased since then.

[o1oo1]

Also the current campaign map is wrong:

A theater is a group of five connected and geographically grouped territories.

the squiggly lines that should represent theaters don't apply. Any group of 5 connected territories on the same continent will form a theater.

[Ghoul]

Also the current campaign map is wrong:

A theater is a group of five connected and geographically grouped territories.

the squiggly lines that should represent theaters don't apply. Any group of 5 connected territories on the same continent will form a theater.

I think the theaters are still being defined by the lines on the map and color coded territory names. If so, we'll get that line in the wikki edited to be more clear.

[o1oo1]

you should add in the wiki which territories are contained in theaters
Territory dividers are missing in multiple theaters (central america/western europe/australia)

Should the battle day end prematurely due to a lack of numbers on the defensive side, then this side will be required to forfeit one round for every twenty (20) minutes lost before the scheduled end of the battle day.

still no mention about how many players is too low

[CognitoCon]

It appears the map is now color coded so the theatres are well defined.

[InsanityRocks]

still no mention about how many players is too low

Unfortunately this tidbit of information seems to be hidden in the Fair Play Rules:

Two consecutive rounds that a team starts below 8 on a given map will surrender the map to the attacking team.

Specifically: wiki/index.php?title=Fair_Play_Rules#.2B2.2F.2B1_Rule

We'll see if we can't get that information more prominently displayed.

[o1oo1]

Maps will be played at 150% ticket count

what about modes that go by timelimit. Like rush, oblit,ctf

[o1oo1]

still no mention about how many players is too low

Unfortunately this tidbit of information seems to be hidden in the Fair Play Rules:

Two consecutive rounds that a team starts below 8 on a given map will surrender the map to the attacking team.

Specifically: wiki/index.php?title=Fair_Play_Rules#.2B2.2F.2B1_Rule

We'll see if we can't get that information more prominently displayed.

The problem with that is that Fair Play rules are not linked in the wiki/index.php?title=BF4_Campaign_4_System

From discussions 2 weeks ago the bleed was going to go back to the 60% we used in C2. If this didn't make it to the wiki then it was just missed, I know we discussed it.

what happened to this ?

[Ghoul]

you should add in the wiki which territories are contained in theaters
Territory dividers are missing in multiple theaters (central america/western europe/australia)

Map is fixed to show those borders more clearly now.

[knorren]

Not sure about this, but is there any map with more than 6 MCOMs, if there is one or more with 8 then that number should be 7, or maybe it was in BF3 there was 8 MCOMs.
Still, a successful attack should be all the MCOMs, because that's the only number that the other team can't beat.

[Spreez]

Please note NEW information listed on the BO page.

wiki/index.php?title=BF4_Campaign_4_Sys ... _played_as:

[knorren]

Is there a list of all the maps and modes that will be used this campaign, there were a few in C3 that should never see the light of day again in GC, mostly because of the unbalance.
One of the maps that should never seen the light of day again in GC is Altai Range, that map is so extremely unbalanced for air.
One side has free sight for 80% of the map from their uncap, the other has a huge mountain between them and 80% of the map.
I remember playing that map in a MAA and it was almost impossible, also hearing our helis getting shot down when they passed the moutain by TVs, SRAWs and their MAA.
This while their MAA (also the much better LAV) could sit safely just outside their uncap, having a clear line of view for almost the entire map, killing everything that passed the mountain.
Well you get the point, that map is extremely BIASed!

Also, there is no point for one army to pass the mountain, if they don't want to deal the final blow to a round, since they already have flags A, B, C, D and E on their side of the mountain. Only F and G are on the other side.

[Gwynzer]

That's a good question Knorren.

BO maplist is not yet finalised. Battleday maps are below. There was a lot of discussion when it came to making this list.

Dawnbreaker 64 V
Dawnbreaker 64 IO
Dawnbreaker 32 V
Flood Zone 64 V
Flood Zone 64 IO
Golmud Railway 64 V
Golmud Railway 32 V
Hainan Resort 64 V
Hainan Resort 64 IO
Lancang Dam 64 V
Paracel Storm 64 V
Paracel Storm 32 V
Siege of Shanghai 64 V
Siege of Shanghai 64 IO
Siege of Shanghai 32 V
Zavod 311 64 V
Zavod 311 64 IO
Zavod 311 32 V
Altai Range 64 V
Altai Range 32 V
Dragon Pass 64 V
Dragon Pass 32 V
Guilin Peaks 64 V
Guilin Peaks 32 V
Silk Road 64 V
Silk Road 32 V
Caspian Border 64 V
Caspian Border 64 IO
Caspian Border 32 V
Operation Firestorm 64 V
Operation Firestorm 32 V
Gulf of Oman 64 V
Gulf of Oman 32 V
Lost Islands 64 V
Lost Islands 32 V
Wave Breaker 64 V
Wave Breaker 32 V
Operation Mortar 64 V
Operation Mortar 32 V
Nansha Strike 64 V
Nansha Strike 32 V
Lumphini Gardens 64 IO
Sunken Dragon 64 V
Sunken Dragon 64 IO
Sunken Dragon 32 V
Propaganda 64 V
Propaganda 64 IO
Propaganda 32 V
Pearl Market 64 V
Pearl Market 64 IO

[knorren]

When playing Infantry Only, are the server settings set to that you run faster, as you do in IO, I don't remember how it was last campaign?

How about the Cruise Missile in the bomber, is that still allowed because imo the cruise missile is something used by the commander alone, not by anyone else?

[A Docile Sloth]

Because of the unique way that IO is done in BF4, we use the vehicles on preset and ban all non-transport vehicle usage. The BF4 IO setting has no transport vehicles so we have to do this.

So I guess, for the moment at least, no, the servers have normal running speed all the time. This is how it was last campaign.