Scrim feedback

[o1oo1]

from

wiki/index.php?title=BF4_Campaign_4_System

Every round will start with a 90-second countdown. To be counted as live, it must start with a TA announcing "LIVE LIVE LIVE" over all chat.

Campaign system and rules are subject to change during campaign. Changes, if necessary, will be announced in the forums, and come in effect instantly. This page is the final authority on campaign system and rules information.

The fact that you wrote in the forums that the countdown is going to be 60s doesnt make it valid.


ON the round start.

the wiki says:

Defenders .... 5 minutes before each subsequent map, to prepare. After that, the attacker can request live at any time.

will the round countdown be counted into this 5 min, it should.
How will the TA's will deal with the new set ready system, it can let the defending team delay the start. From yesterday the player number balancing seemed to take forever between rounds.



general feedback in the wiki:

The attack will continue until one side has run out of divisions.

SO its really not 2 divisions. like the wiki mentions earlier

Every territory has a max attackers limit of 2 divisions.

Refunded divisions may be moved following placement.
Unlimited refunds may be placed on a Headquarters.

so why place any refunds anywhere else. Just put on the HQ and move where you want. no movement penalty applied.

One division may be placed on each owned Theater .

Still dont understand this sentence

An attacking army may continue to move on and attack any adjoining territory from the one just conquered and occupied. This is known as the Blitzkrieg Effect (aka "Blitz").

from the original attack or after each territory win ?





After both scrims are played what are the maplists for blops

[StarfisherEcho]

I not sure I understand some of your feedback:

- An "attack" starts when the attacker declares how many divisions they're attacking with (limited to 2 by the risk rules), and continues until they've lost all of them or the defender has lost all of theirs. I don't understand how this leads you to say "really not 2 divisions".

- You can't place refunds anywhere but an HQ (or one on a theater, see next point). They can then move one tile. You've always only been able to place refunds on an HQ, and I'm not sure what you mean by "no movement penalty", so again I am confuzzled.

- If you own a theater (have all five territories in your possession), you can place one of your refunds on any of the territories within that theater. The word "Theater" in that sentence is a link to the Theater Bonus section of the wiki, which explains this in a bit more detail.

[A Docile Sloth]

Every round will start with a 90-second countdown. To be counted as live, it must start with a TA announcing "LIVE LIVE LIVE" over all chat.

The fact that you wrote in the forums that the countdown is going to be 60s doesnt make it valid.

This was an oversight by the TAs. We thought it was in the wiki. Is now fixed

ON the round start.

the wiki says:

Defenders .... 5 minutes before each subsequent map, to prepare. After that, the attacker can request live at any time.

will the round countdown be counted into this 5 min, it should.

It never has before. The 5 mins is for preparation. Once the five minutes is up the attacking army can call live and the map restarted to get the teams in the correct side. The counter is to allow time for everyone to load in before the breakout.

How will the TA's will deal with the new set ready system, it can let the defending team delay the start. From yesterday the player number balancing seemed to take forever between rounds.

The ready system was a bit broken on the NA server yesterday, likely due to the pub settings. In procon, everything looked normal but it still wanted N-1 of N players to ready up. As ever, if the defending team causes a delay, the time will be added at the end of the battleday. The exact use of the ready up feature is currently being discussed.

Numbers balancing has been addressed and a system is in place to speed up numbers balancing.

After both scrims are played what are the maplists for blops

Still being sorted. The BO Scrim is being used to help finalise the list.

[o1oo1]

It never has before. The 5 mins is for preparation. Once the five minutes is up the attacking army can call live and the map restarted to get the teams in the correct side. The counter is to allow time for everyone to load in before the breakout.

if the defending army gives an order for its players to not click ready it can greatly increase their prep time.
A round goes live once the countdown has reached 0 and not before. I think this needs to be addressed.
on a similar note the multiple map restarts and countdowns between them, gives the defending army even more time to prepare.

im saying that everything should happen at the pace that the attackers want not at the arbitrary pace of the TA responsible for the server at that time.

- An "attack" starts when the attacker declares how many divisions they're attacking with (limited to 2 by the risk rules), and continues until they've lost all of them or the defender has lost all of theirs. I don't understand how this leads you to say "really not 2 divisions".

i made the assumption that you can attack with as many divisions as you like but only 2 count, just like defending.

- You can't place refunds anywhere but an HQ (or one on a theater, see next point). They can then move one tile. You've always only been able to place refunds on an HQ, and I'm not sure what you mean by "no movement penalty", so again I am confuzzled.

The only movement penalties are mentioned are at repositioning the forces used in an attack. according to the wiki there are no movement penalties to forces refunded on the HQ

The attacker can move its divisions to any adjoining occupied territory.
Each division can move by one (1) territory.

Each individual division can only move one territory in preparation to attack.

- If you own a theater (have all five territories in your possession), you can place one of your refunds on any of the territories within that theater. The word "Theater" in that sentence is a link to the Theater Bonus section of the wiki, which explains this in a bit more detail.

This is strange and i dont understand why this is a thing

[Necromancer]

The only movement penalties are mentioned are at repositioning the forces used in an attack. according to the wiki there are no movement penalties to forces refunded on the HQ

There are no movement penalties for units placed on the HQ (refunded) as in they can move one tile immediately after being placed on the HQ. this is contrary to older systems where you had to wait 1 week to move units that were refunded and placed on the HQ.

StarfisherEcho wrote:
- If you own a theater (have all five territories in your possession), you can place one of your refunds on any of the territories within that theater. The word "Theater" in that sentence is a link to the Theater Bonus section of the wiki, which explains this in a bit more detail.
This is strange and i dont understand why this is a thing

It may be strange, but that what they decided to go with. Conquering a theater increases your division count by 1, and you can immediately place that division on that theater.
Its a bonus, to encourage capturing theaters.

[o1oo1]

There are no movement penalties for units placed on the HQ (refunded) as in they can move one tile immediately after being placed on the HQ. this is contrary to older systems where you had to wait 1 week to move units that were refunded and placed on the HQ.

No, according to the wiki you can move them however much you want because there is no predefined maximum/minimum movement amount.

[A Docile Sloth]

I have made it explicitly clear how the refunded divisions act in the wiki.

[Spreez]

if the defending army gives an order for its players to not click ready it can greatly increase their prep time.
A round goes live once the countdown has reached 0 and not before. I think this needs to be addressed.
on a similar note the multiple map restarts and countdowns between them, gives the defending army even more time to prepare.

You assume people will not follow the rules and delay the battleday. You also assume that this is NOT still in discussion and testing phases (which scrims are used for). Thank you for the feed back but following this post this is a mute point. It has already been noted that it is under discussion.

[Necromancer]

I have made it explicitly clear how the refunded divisions act in the wiki.

its not very clear because:
step 3: defensive moves notes that divisions can move 1 tile
then Step 4: refunds, that supposed to say how many division each army gets, also mentions the divisions may be placed on HQ or theaters and may be moved after placement and count as defensive moves without mentioning it can move only 1 tile.
then Step 5: Placement of New Divisions says "This is the last thing that occurs during a turn"
So kind of contradicts all movements. It says placing new divisions is the last thing you do, so ... kinda implies you can't move them.
Step 5 contradicts Step 4, and step 4 requires information from step 3.

Wiki became a spaghetti, you really have to read it in one go to understand how it works.

you should remove all division placement from Step 4. Step 4 supposed to say how the refunds are calculated and how many division each army gets -> all destroyed divisions are refunded to the same army, very simple.
then change the order of the steps - make refunds Step 3.
after step 3: refunds, comes step 4: division placement (of the said refunds), and step 5: defensive moves.
that would follow the same order as it actually done in practice and eliminate that spaghetti of steps requiring/contradicting information from other steps.

[A Docile Sloth]

But the movements of the refunded divisions ARE defensive moves. Therefore they follow the defensive move rules, ergo they can only move one territory.

I don't see why reading the whole of the attack sequence is a bad thing. It's a loop by design so it will follow on. I do agree that the last step is a bit odd.

Anywhom, I shall rewrite the last three steps. Time to break everything.

[Necromancer]

Docile, the order of the steps is how they used to be in the past. placement of divisions was the last thing to do and turn was over, they couldn't be moved.
All steps where stand alone and made perfect sense.

Since previous campaign new spawned divisions can move right away, effectively placing Step 5: division placement before step 3: defensive moves. As you first place new divisions, then move all divisions.
But you didn't change the order of the steps in the wiki, thats why it comes out like that.

[A Docile Sloth]

Yeah, I see your point. As I said, I'm currently editing that bit of the wiki as I type (well not exactly as I type this or I'd need extra hands) and was going to change the order of the last few steps. The content will stay the same.

[matsif]

im saying that everything should happen at the pace that the attackers want not at the arbitrary pace of the TA responsible for the server at that time.

Nothing happens at an arbitrary pace of the TAs. We sit and ask "are you ready" and get dead air, what are we supposed to do? Say "oh tough crap, we're going live now, deal with it" and then you guys jump down our throats for that.

Armies have to at least make an attempt at responding when we say "hey are you guys ready?" Otherwise we have no clue if the attacking team is actually ready to go or not. Yesterday was just lots of empty silence from both sides.

[A Docile Sloth]

Reordered steps 3, 4 and 5 as well as rearranging their content between these steps. Hopefully it reads better now.

[Gonzo]

Armies have to at least make an attempt at responding when we say "hey are you guys ready?" Otherwise we have no clue if the attacking team is actually ready to go or not. Yesterday was just lots of empty silence from both sides.

Sorry 'bout that. My SAD HC-bind was screwed up, but Gwyn helped me to fix it. In the furure, if you don't get an answer from me, just ask louder. There were one or two times yesterday when I didn't hear the question because of chatter on CC and in my squad. I just wish I could get 3D sound to work again