Boats - TV missiles

[elchino7]

Would it be more interesting for gameplay if we play without them?

[Gwynzer]

I don't have a mega issue with them personally. The fact they can basically play area denial to an entire map is annoying though.

I've got a bigger beef with the SRAW.

[nx-jojo]

Without the TV, boats will be defenseless against Jets. You might argue "but boats got Passive Radar, TOW, Reps, APS, Stinger on the back..."
Let me tell you: It doesnt matter if the enemy has a good Jet pilot. I've played both sides a lot(!) and TVs are the most valueable defense against jets (Burst Canons is required to finish them off).

Yes, TVs have long range. If coordinated well you can kill an enemy boat very quickly. But keep in mind, when shooting the TV you are a sitting duck. You can't move your boat, you can only exit the TV early or use APS. Good players will take advantage of this.

In my opinion the TV is strong but has its down sides which makes them not overpowered and therefore should not be banned.


Same with SRAW: You are a sitting duck. It is hard to master against choppers or even jets. You might think it is too easy to shoot tanks with it well let me tell you this: when shooting the sraw most people dont move. Use the HMG and he is gone. I also noticed very few people (infantry) actually pressure tanks. I saw this on Golmud. There were very few engineers for a 32 player team who used SRAW / SMAW / RPG.

And to be honest if you get shot by SRAW as infantry you rage just as much as SMAW / RPG. There would have been one map where I would have actually agreed with you but we already played this map and no team used this tactic: Flood Zone with a lot of SRAWs (like 5+ on C and B roof!) on roofs. THAT would have been a reason to ban SRAW from that map. But as i said: none of us used this tactic so i don't think SRAW should ever be banned except in a situation like the one i just described.

What concerned me on Golmud was the SOFLAM on the tanks gunner seat. I saw at least one of them. It didn't hurt me though.

[Necromancer]

Boats are really fragile to fire. The only thing that makes them somewhat useful is their range. Take the TV from them and they can't do much. SRAWs and jets finish them off easily.
Remind me how useful the boats are for anything but killing other boats and choppers flying over water?
except for the naval strike DLC, boats hardly contribute to taking/defending flags.

My guess the boat TV is only annoying against other boats. Armor/Air gets hit by boat TV as much as by the attack chopper TV.
And the boats miniguns/burst cannon has a good chance to kill the TV, maybe the driver too.
Driving boats requires a different style of game-play, But removing TV will make them even more useless to the team.

[elchino7]

Sraw: trades accuracy for firepower. You want a SRAW for long engagements, you want Rpg/smaw for more urban maps.

Without the TV, boats will be defenseless against Jets.
Yes, TVs have long range. If coordinated well you can kill an enemy boat very quickly. But keep in mind, when shooting the TV you are a sitting duck. You can't move your boat, you can only exit the TV early or use APS. Good players will take advantage of this.

How many times any of both teams killed any jet with a TV ? If anything the passive radar is a better air detterent but you are just useless against other boats. Double teaming enemy boats is the way to play since you can hit something at 800-1000m bypassing active protection and inmobilizing the vehicle.

Boats are really fragile to fire. The only thing that makes them somewhat useful is their range. Take the TV from them and they can't do much. SRAWs and jets finish them off easily.
Remind me how useful the boats are for anything but killing other boats and choppers flying over water?
except for the naval strike DLC, boats hardly contribute to taking/defending flags.

Exactly, we have:
Shangai-Oman: very limited role if any at all (maybe Oman you could have 1 guy as AA)
Lancang-Hainan: meh. Kill boat try to support land/air or cap some unique flag.
Paracel-Lost Islands-Nansha Strike-Operation Mortar-Wave breaker

If TV were banned, the performance of boats would be cut on Oman-Lancang-Hainan against MBT/IFV, but right now they don't have as much of a role anyway on those maps.
I just wonder if others finds boring to play 2v2 who coordinates and aim better TV missiles. I wanted to see if someone would prefer to make boat vs boat combat something more appealing (this is personal opinion. The difference with heli TV is that it's actually harder to hit other aircraft)

[nx-jojo]

How many times any of both teams killed any jet with a TV ?

When boats get rekt by jet and never hit a TV on it they are doing something wrong.

Here is the typical scenario boat vs jet:
Jet attacks, boat shoots TV - jet turns away, boat gets reps
Jet attacks, boat shoots TV - jet turns away, boat gets reps
Jet attacks, boat has CD on TVs - Boat uses APS

If jet gets hit at any point of time he gets finished by Burst Cannons.


And if you are flying jet you want to take the missile pods. Shoot those at long range (more effective than main gun at larger ranges). If a TV comes at you - dodge. If boat uses APS, prepare the next attack.

But usually the jet should not engage the boat 1v1. Rather wait for it to get in a fight with infantry, other boats or choppers and that is the point of time when boat gunners need to watch out for jet and tell the driver.



I don't agree with you (and Necro) saying the boats aren't usefull on Shanghai, Oman, Lancang and Hainan.

Shanghai you have pretty much a MAA and you have TVs for tanks. A tank is under a little pressure? Finish him! Chopper cleared some roofs and there are no stingers left? Kill his ass with Burst Cannons and / or TV.

Oman: Mobile spawnpoint for any squad on any beach flag (can even go to construction) AND it so so freakin easy to deal those 80 dmg on tanks. As long as the air is clear you only need the driver - not even a gunner. Just have him give good spawns and TV any tank that gets a pressured.

Lancang: Pretty much the same as Shanghai. You hold the flag, you are the MAA in the middle of the map and you TV and tank that gets pressured.

Hainan is pretty much like Paracel exept you have to watch out a little bit more for slams (oh wait they are forbidden). So yeah pretty much like Paracel just closer ranges most of the times.


Driving boats on those maps might not be the most exciting thing to do and you won't get tons of points but when used properly those boats are very valueable for the team.

[Necromancer]

you want to make the boat fights close fights.

If its not who can aim better with TVs, its who can aim better with Zuni's or 30mm. close range fights doesn't make it more interesting for me.

one of the boats will go down 10 seconds after entering firing range that there isn't really a lot to do.
Unlike 1v1 tank fights, a tank fight with rep guy is endless, cus the rep repairs all the damage 1 tank can do until the tank runs out of ammo, so you have to do something to actually win a tank fight.

With boats you just shoot and one side will explode before you realized what happened. Only 1 guy can rep, one of the patches patched it so you can't heal when seated in the boat, even if you have a med pack on it.
And the real problem there is just no cover. There is no peek-n'-shoot with a boat, even if you find a rock its not agile enough to peek and go back because of momentum. very little tactics can be employed in a boat. That said there are still some things you can do to enter the fight in a better position and have the upper hand. but the game is not very consistent especially regarding boats.



At least after killing the enemy boat we can pass the 120 seconds we have before it re spawns by trying to TV birds or other wild-life. Without it waiting 120 seconds will be boring.

If you want to make boats more fun to play, ban boat-dog-fighting. Thats right, if the boat doesn't need to constantly worry about the enemy boat it'll be much more fun to play. Not sure it'll be much more useful, but at least you remove that dull repetitive boat-fighting and search for actual opportunities.
But thats probably not going happen
I guess boats are like jets: Spawn, dog fight, repeat.

@JOJO
hitting a jet with a TV is hard, even if its strafing you - the whole screen is shaking like a vibrator, if you use AProtection the blasts will cover your screen, if you don't you'll be dead before the TV hits the jet . sometimes the TV just goes through (ghosting), dust, or the jet kills the TV.
A good jet pilot can kill the boat in a single strafe run, even when using the Active protection.
Don't forget a strafe will often kill the rep guy and disable the boat, by the time he respawns the jet is already aligned for another strafe cus you couldn't move (disabled), and this time you're at 50% (in good case) and no counter-measures. good luck.


Shanghai - The boat is in range of a tank almost anywhere. Easily finished. The attack chopper can easily TV the boat, it has 0 cover. Same goes for SRAWs. If the boat is alive on Shanghai it is because nobody really cares about it, no other reason.

Lancang - Same as Shanghai except the US can actually hide in their base.
But not in the 32v - thats just f*ed up.

The boat is just like the attack chopper, its really made out of glass.
The island maps are the only ones boats can really go around, but so long as enemy jets don't harass too much. If they both team up the boat stands no chance.

All those tactics work in public, when half of the people don't even know what they are doing, and the other half aren't coordinated at all. It doesn't work in GC where people know what they are doing and team up against you. Or rather - It works until they team up.

[Rellik_pt]

IF we stop using sraws i dont mind to stop using tv guide just saying

[nx-jojo]

You made a few points so I think it will be easiest if I adress them like that:

hitting a jet with a TV is hard, even if its strafing you - the whole screen is shaking like a vibrator, if you use AProtection the blasts will cover your screen, if you don't you'll be dead before the TV hits the jet .

the screen does not shake that much. You shoot the TV THEN activate APS (mid TV flight) to prevent vision from being blocked.

sometimes the TV just goes through (ghosting), dust, or the jet kills the TV.

Those are very rare occasions.

A good jet pilot can kill the boat in a single strafe run, even when using the Active protection.

To do so you will either need Rocket Pods (which funhit doesnt use) to deal ~50 dmg before finishing off with main gun. Or you tab fire before finishing from ~50-0. Funhit uses the JDAM - not sure if it's for fun or if he thinks they are good. IMO Rocket Pods are way better. Especially when using JDAMs you have to get rather close - giving the boat a very god chance to blow him up.

Don't forget a strafe will often kill the rep guy and disable the boat, by the time he respawns the jet is already aligned for another strafe cus you couldn't move (disabled), and this time you're at 50% (in good case) and no counter-measures. good luck.

When a strafe kills the rep guy it is not the end of the world. Guess what: the driver can repair as well. It takes ~6-10s minimum for the jet to come back. Jump out, rep, jump in, rep respawns. But to repair your own vehicle you need to know those timing windows.

Shanghai - The boat is in range of a tank almost anywhere. Easily finished. The attack chopper can easily TV the boat, it has 0 cover. Same goes for SRAWs. If the boat is alive on Shanghai it is because nobody really cares about it, no other reason.

It probably is the hardest map to play on. You would want to stay around a bridge on B/D (higher possible impact vs chopper and good spawn for C defense) or in your base to act as a TV bot.

Lancang - Same as Shanghai except the US can actually hide in their base.
But not in the 32v - thats just f*ed up.

Yes, the spawns in 32v are ridiculous. Holding C and using the island as cover will allow you to be usefull.



To sum it up:
You are saying boats can't be usefull because they don't have the right tools (like map design) or the pressure is too high.

I am saying:
Boat drivers got to learn more about ground air fights / Get better drivers to operate the boats.

[Jokerle]

JDAMs are silent thus good at dropping from high altitude at non-moving armour targets or clustered infantry. They are also good for the finishing blow after the main cannon strafe. Rocket pods are good for long-distance strafes where u have time to shoot cannon plus pods, which is difficult on many maps attacking from the very steep angle necessary against MAAs and boats. JDAMs are fast to drop while pulling up.

[Nix]

I don't recall TVs being a problem.
Hell, I don't think I've ever been killed by a TV...

[Mack]

No, TV in the boaths is awesome, use second lcd monitor for minimap and shot spoted enemy

[Necromancer]

I am saying:
Boat drivers got to learn more about ground air fights / Get better drivers to operate the boats.

You can apply that argument to other rules as well:
Good drivers avoid M2 slams. Good drivers can avoid SOFLAMs/Javs, a good jet pilot can avoid active radar etc...
Get better instead of banning weapons.

But we are not all competitive pro's spending time training and practicing all week.
I guess we are just a bunch of shitty drivers and nothing will come out of us...but don't we deserve to have some fun too? isn't that the reason we banned some weapons in the first place? to make it fun for our current skill level as we are a casual community?!

[nx-jojo]

But we are not all competitive pro's spending time training and practicing all week.
I guess we are just a bunch of shitty drivers and nothing will come out of us...but don't we deserve to have some fun too? isn't that the reason we banned some weapons in the first place? to make it fun for our current skill level as we are a casual community?!

I see your point although there are some pretty good players here for a "casual" community and the way to "counter" them is by maximizing your own assets. One example: enemy has it's best pilot in attack jet? We better get our best pilot in the stealth jet ASAP and don't waste it for jet drops.

After all i think we only have different opinions on how usefull a boat can be. According to your first post here we are on the same page if TVs should be banned (they shouldn't) and in the end that is partly what the forum is for: discussing stuff like that, isn't it?

[Mack]

TV Missile Guide - Everything you need to know https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znr_DdVYIq4