The Rules

[Ramrod64]

Too bad there are some here (check this post for example) who refuse to seek the truth and speak incorrectly about things they know little about.
Too bad they continue to do this week after week.

Maybe I only know nearly nothing about what is going on. Cause if you change the Fairplay Rules and announce it AFTER you kicked all guys who broke the rule it is unacceptable to me.
The fair play rules I know are written down in the wiki, if you make new one announce them AND edit in the wiki also.
Missing informations leads to trouble on the field. Teaching the rule by kicking is useless if someone is thinking that he havent done anything wrong. explain later why he got kicked (oh we have a new rule, no one told you?!)

I were asked by squadmembers why they had been kicked cause they just shot on inf on the heli pad. they felt not guilty and I agreed cause I just looked at the wiki fair play rules.
So what we should do if there is another changing of the rules. asking every saturday before the battleday starts if there any new rule which havent been announced yet?
They way you act is not that professional I used to be from TAs.


But OKAY thank you for announcing the new rule maybe someone of the TAs should also edit the Fairplay rules in the wiki else we have again 2 diffrent versions of the Fairplay rule.


mana mana - spider pig - boomchika wah wah...

[Ash2Dust]

Both HCs (and other ranks) have Executive Senate members (our boss). They can pull our kicking powers at any time. These kicks are being done with oversight, discussion, and feedback with the intention of correcting the ignoring or circumvention of the rules. None of this is news to the HCs or Execs. Its been contantly discussed since BFI in the HC,TA, Nuetrals forum.

We see the not so nice posts of people claiming wrongful kicks. When we look, yes the player was in the wrong. Looking at the demos (when they exist) of a round to verify the kicks legitamacy, that consumes anywhere from 1 to 3 hours per person looking. We can only review 1 to 2 rounds and thats getting very old as we are not finding illegit kicks. Not that we are mistake proof, just non coming to light at this time.

As for changing the wiki or clarifying the intent. Thats a sticky issue without a vote. But if it stops all the rule breaking and the TAs dont have to babysit an airspawn due to HC complaints, then I'm all for it. Also then why are the other rules on the short kick list being constantly broken? We can fix wording, but that is not the root problem in most cases.

Part of what Brummie is asking with this thread is what should we do about the rules as a community? Get rid of the rules? Only warn and not kick? Kick harder? Change the rules? Change the TAs? Assign kicking to HCs? Bottom line is what is going to work for everyone?

[Shrapnel]

Telling the people who don't want to play by the rules of this community to find a new one to play in.

jmo...

[cVetko]

from my point of view u as tas get just to emotionaly involved its noting personal atleast for u it shouldnt be... but when u do something wrong in the eyes of the community u have to accept critisizm and try harder next time ... maybe orginize yourselfs more within the neutrals fraction assign battle day duties so each of u can concentrate on a single rule enforcment more carefully ...

i see a cuple of problems this camp...

the rules were changes at some point... they didnt exactly make a 180 but they were perfected to a degree and a large part of the community wasnt informed...

ppl were kicked like flys for presumed rules violations...
ppl obviusly dont even need to brake the rules to get kicked but they just need to intend to break them?
ppl were kicked for numbers randomly after the start of the battle...

the time bettwen rounds was increased for no apperent reason besides the (i presume) unorginized neutrals to hc communications...ppl were still getting kicked after the start of the live round witch is unaccaptable...

the time bettwen the end of a round and to the point when we found out whats next (a new map? another round?5 more rounds?) was rly long ....

the time it took to change the map was long 2...and thats when most of the violations took place...


now...im not trying to insult offend or in anyway harm anyway... and im not trying to tell the ta's its all ur fault but im just pointing out that there are isssues that need to be taken care of. maybe all get a little more orginized in communicating with each other so the battle goes more smoothly and not somany ppl get a reason to be upset...

[Ash2Dust]

TAs and Neutrals are different groups sharing some members. Out of 4 volunteers to take on the TA task, we only have 1-4 "playing" at any one time. Thats alot of work to cover with few people.

Delay between rounds can be a problem. Some delays are from TAs and HC working something out. Other delays are from communication problems of high chatter. Yes some of it is TA organization. There are alot of dynamics that go on with the level of detail the campaign entails beyond actually fighting a round. When a map ends theres nothing we can do until the HC announces the next tile and the divisions involved (that can be a long wait). We then consult/concur on the attack and give relevent info. Get the mod or server ready. Then we request the attacking HC to let us know they are done preparing.

The attacking HC declares round start to TAs per its their valuable attack time being wasted. The TAs then go live when the numbers are legit noting the numbers for the +4 rule application during the round.

HCs are frustrated with the numbers also and we were requested at one point to clear/kick players starting with negative scores. Some players felt it was their right to join/rejoin keeping the numbers inbalanced and received lengthier kicks. In the meantime, the other team starts dropping players putting us back in square one.

Another perception by some players of both armies is that the TAs are biased. Everyone who believes that is welcome to post so we can establish that the TAs are biased against both armies.

[DaRkAcE]

Not doing anything about the air camp rule on Ghost Town about a week ago. Lister and I were both getting killed on the ground on the pad and nothing was done even though we had told our HC and they told you. It took about 3 rounds later till something was actually being done and even than you told us to take screenshots. Which is complete bullshit in my opinion.

I'd like to thank you Ash for stepping up and atleast watching the helo pad, I do remember that.

[SSnake_Plissken]

Were you in the helo at he time? If not you bring up a very good point here, what heppens when there are infantry on the helo pad? Are they legit targets or should no one on the helo pad be shot at/bombed?

Also the other day I saw the armor AA sitting right next to, and partly on, the helo pad, should the airforce not bomd them if they are on the helo pad? If there are only infantry near the helo pad and/or armor aren't they fair game? Especially if they are firing at you?
Just something to think about... I don't think the enemy should use the helo pad and expect not to get shot at or bombed. (just my opinion)

I think there are only a few people breaking the rules and the majority of people are playing by them. I did get bombed several times at my UCB yesterday, but saw it was a player I didn't recognize, and just wrote it off as a newbie error. I'm sure he was told and I didn't waste my time worrying about it.

I also believe the TA's and Neutrals are doing a fine job, will continue to improve, and are making the best of a difficult job. Thank you!
So we should all try to discuss these problems, learn from them and work together to sort them out. Which I know the HC's and TA"s are doing.

Let's not make anything personal, either in the way we write things or how we read them.

[Robawillis]

Being in HC last camp we got this all the time i think a simple rule came into play, AIR CANT CAMP AIR OR GUN DOWN THE PILOTS ON THE GROUND NEAR THE PLANE/HELICOPTER , however if it does happen and the TA's aint there then they cant do anything, it is extremely hard for the TA's to see half way across the map just to see that, we gotta cut the TA's some slack here they are tryin their best to do mulitple jobs at the same time, just report incidents to your HC and it will get sorted soon

[cVetko]

air vehicles cant camp air vehicles thats that omg talking about complications... a pilot isnt an air unit until he enters a plane or helo simple as that... generaly helos shouldnt hang around helo pads but at ghost town they are basicly next to each other so its fair game...

the air to air rule was created because planes and helos were being campt for whole rounds at gulf of oman way back in camp 4 or 5.... and gulf of oman only has helo pads and runways in the main base....

ash2dust: im just pointing out that these things have to be worked on from all personel from ta's neutrals and hq's

[Von_Krieg]

Not doing anything about the air camp rule on Ghost Town about a week ago. Lister and I were both getting killed on the ground on the pad and nothing was done even though we had told our HC and they told you. It took about 3 rounds later till something was actually being done and even than you told us to take screenshots. Which is complete bullshit in my opinion.

I'd like to thank you Ash for stepping up and atleast watching the helo pad, I do remember that.

Sorry my friend but I watched the BR of that battle and you were camped just as much as you camped the other team. Your chopper killed a lot of people on the pad or going to it. Our team did as well so do not think I am only pointing at you. Ash did kick someone for what you thought to be camping so something was done. More then has happened with others here.

Honestly this is getting way out of hand. When you are on a helo pad of a flag that is as close as the ones in contention then things will happen. The choppers themselves we attacked a few times by both sides and only blown up once.

Now we can sit here and point fingers or take the bull by the horns and act correctly.

The TA's cannot kick anyone without seeing the infraction so please grasp that. If you cannot handle getting killed then you are playing the wrong game .

We will readjust what it takes to get kicked and that way everyone knows the deal. Currently there is too much gray area so we will tighten it up a little.

Being a TA is not easy and they cannot be everywhere all the time so some things you will have to accept. Continue to inform the HC and things will be looked at.

Lets work on a soultion and make this issue somehting that will not cause issues in the future.

[a432]

Not doing anything about the air camp rule on Ghost Town about a week ago. Lister and I were both getting killed on the ground on the pad and nothing was done even though we had told our HC and they told you. It took about 3 rounds later till something was actually being done and even than you told us to take screenshots. Which is complete bullshit in my opinion.

I'd like to thank you Ash for stepping up and atleast watching the helo pad, I do remember that.

I was the part of the chopper team on the later half of those rounds. First off, from last campaign shooting infantry on the helo pad or near it with a helo or plane was completely acceptable. The only thing unacceptable was destroying the helo or plane while still on the ground and ramming. Second off, from my prospective, you initiated this "air camp". Third off, you were never kicked for your infractions of violating these same "air camp" rules.

Were you in the helo at he time? If not you bring up a very good point here, what heppens when there are infantry on the helo pad? Are they legit targets or should no one on the helo pad be shot at/bombed?

Also the other day I saw the armor AA sitting right next to, and partly on, the helo pad, should the airforce not bomd them if they are on the helo pad? If there are only infantry near the helo pad and/or armor aren't they fair game? Especially if they are firing at you?
Just something to think about... I don't think the enemy should use the helo pad and expect not to get shot at or bombed. (just my opinion)

I agree with SSnake_Plissken and strongly oppose any rule that gives infantry, AA, and anything else immunity from air strikes as long as they remain at or near the helo pad or airstrip. This rule can and will be abused. Why change the rules now after C8 ran rather smoothly?

Both HCs (and other ranks) have Executive Senate members (our boss). They can pull our kicking powers at any time. These kicks are being done with oversight, discussion, and feedback with the intention of correcting the ignoring or circumvention of the rules. None of this is news to the HCs or Execs. Its been contantly discussed since BFI in the HC,TA, Nuetrals forum.

Well if these new changes were discussed so frequently why were none of the enlisted men in my army ever informed, myself included? Apparently we have played 2 battledays with these new rules and various people have been kicked for breaking rules they knew nothing about. Somewhere the ball was dropped.

Part of what Brummie is asking with this thread is what should we do about the rules as a community? Get rid of the rules? Only warn and not kick? Kick harder? Change the rules? Change the TAs? Assign kicking to HCs? Bottom line is what is going to work for everyone?

How about less kicking and more warning? In C8 I hardly remember any kickings. This is because warning first was the TA reprimand of choice, not kicking first and ask questions later. Not only do you kick first but your kicks are severe. I was kicked for 15 mins after completing a bombing run on operation clean sweep for apparent violation of your new "air camp" rule. Was that entirely necessary, 15min kick, on a first offense with no prior warning?

HCs are frustrated with the numbers also and we were requested at one point to clear/kick players starting with negative scores.

Were you requested to kick our pilot on operation clean sweep due to numbers? Because thats exactly what happened after your 15min kick was lifted, I rejoined the battle in the begging the of the 2nd round only to be promptly kicked "due to numbers", at this point I was fed up with the bullshit and left for the day.


This is my two cents, if I offended anyone please accept my apologies.

[BlackOps_Book]

How about we make the rule that aircraft (jets and helos) cannot attack enemy bases that spawn helos and jets. all others are free game.

The air vehicles in this game are so overpowered and made so simple to fly that they should be removed completely. But the HCs can look at a map that is about to be played...decide where the air spawns and relay that information to the AF for each side...

If we want the game to be about spirit and 'our intentions' we enforce the rules...if we want it about point whoring...join a pub server.

As far as kicking for TKs and suck before matches...cant the Server admin pause the game? That way we could keep idiots from being idiots...kind of like babysitting the mildly mental

[Nimrod]

Kicking by numbers hard to believe but my pb say it so, i was shocked and think about what i doin wrong and then i ask my sl whats up, then he says go to the waitbench i call you when armys are even.

Last campain the Sl can choose their waiting personal alone and no one kicked by numbers, but i am on the side that lost at the end! Can it be that some rules mistaken to make the armys more even?

Ok i think we have much time to clear things between the rounds, because the mapchanges and lull takes much time. 20 min and more are very hard to sit in the own base and wait for the go and do nothing.

When i drive a tank and are near an ucb and was hit from enemy at what should i do? jump out the tank to save my live? Or should i return the fire and kicked by ta because rules violation? Or should i move around give the enemy the chance to become more accurate in hitting moving tanks?

[DaRkAcE]

VK, Send me that BR file than. I remember specificly telling lister(my pilot). I'm not killing people ON the pad, I'm killing people AROUND the pad. Meaning on the stairs or above that wall. At the helo pad closest to your main base. I never killed anyone while they were on the pad. I make sure I don't break these rules just for this god dam reason.

[Von_Krieg]

Darkace do not take offense to what I said. All I am saying is that both teams did the same thing to each other. There are times your chopper killed people on the pad and other times as people were running to the pad just like what happened to you. My point is the rule has been there for a few camps and we have played these same maps with no issues and the same thing was happening then as now.

Now I guess the rule needs to be adjusted to fit situations like the past 2 weeks. No one is calling anyone out here so keep calm and help us make this issue go away.