Campaign 3 - 3D spotting (poll)

[bigdcowboys22]

I'm beginning to think this is all Loa's fault.

I've been saying it's all Loa's fault for a long time
Bastard knifed me last night

I think styphon put it best in his last post. You either like it or you don't.

I think the current plan is to play a day without it so everyone has a true comparison after all the latest patches have taken their toll and then we'll see where it goes. If another vote takes place and to disable 3d wins, those of us supporting it on will just have to suck it up and deal with it. Life will go on, and we'll still have fun either way.

Feel free to post your opinions (in a civil manner) here and discuss the topic, but try to keep an open mind too. It's quite possible all the patches and "fixes" have completely changed the way 3d spotting being off will play out in the GC style of play.

[Chxrles]

turn it off

[LoA]

I'm gonna buy a bag of DORITOS for everyone who vote to enable 3D spotting!

[LoA]

I missclicked and voted enabled, next time please allow people to change their vote.

3D spotting is lazy. It promotes individual skill and air power over team play, not something we at gc should be aiming for. I'm not surprised LoA liked it on, and I expect the other fly boys to vote the same way, but that is the single biggest reason why 3D spotting should be off. Air should not be able to kill infantry, especially hidden infantry, so easily.

Soflams were why 3D spotting was turned on after C1, but I think they are less of an issue now.. And even if they aren't, they are still less of an issue than planes.

So you don't want any doritos?

Edit: I agree with you styphon, but i really don't get how you guys can be such easy targets on the ground. It's like you want to get killed when you run around not bringing any attention in the air.

Two stingers is enough to get a jet down. If you as a pilot even hear a lock-on sound while dogfighting you're shitting your pants and will try to dodge the stingers, then you're getting killed by the jet behind you.

[thallus]

I think this is something that should be played around with on the tuesday / thursday small maps days or on saturday. This way we will gain experience with it and can make a more informed decision.

[V_]

Two stingers is enough to get a jet down. If you as a pilot even hear a lock-on sound while dogfighting you're shitting your pants and will try to dodge the stingers, then you're getting killed by the jet behind you.

Haha! a432 should be happy to hear that!

But on the topic of 3D spotting, I'm still leaning towards on. Sure soflams aren't a problem now, but if we turn it back off, who's to say that it won't become a problem again? Campaign 2 went alright (except for the air raping), and I see no reason to change it. And - if we make sure air is balanced - air will be too busy to rape infantry at all! And should something go wrong, we just whip out our stingers. GC is about strategy - and countering the opponent's air is part of that.

[LoA]

Two stingers is enough to get a jet down. If you as a pilot even hear a lock-on sound while dogfighting you're shitting your pants and will try to dodge the stingers, then you're getting killed by the jet behind you.

Haha! a432 should be happy to hear that!

But on the topic of 3D spotting, I'm still leaning towards on. Sure soflams aren't a problem now, but if we turn it back off, who's to say that it won't become a problem again? Campaign 2 went alright (except for the air raping), and I see no reason to change it. And - if we make sure air is balanced - air will be too busy to rape infantry at all! And should something go wrong, we just whip out our stingers. GC is about strategy - and countering the opponent's air is part of that.

Exactly. At one point, the air in hitcorp was going crazy and killed everything in their sight, then kinetic started to make strategies on how to defend themselves against air, and it worked.

This is beginning to look like the Battlelog forums, everyone whining about stuff that are OP, when in fact it's not. In BF3 there's counter-measures for everything, stop whine and do something about it instead of disabling something that will make the air pretty much useless.

Imagine yourself being a pilot, where you don't know where the mobile AA are, where the soflam and javelin squads are and where the stinger guys are. You're pretty much dead as fast as you take off.

[MotherFo™]

Two stingers is enough to get a jet down. If you as a pilot even hear a lock-on sound while dogfighting you're shitting your pants and will try to dodge the stingers, then you're getting killed by the jet behind you.

Haha! a432 should be happy to hear that!

But on the topic of 3D spotting, I'm still leaning towards on. Sure soflams aren't a problem now, but if we turn it back off, who's to say that it won't become a problem again? Campaign 2 went alright (except for the air raping), and I see no reason to change it. And - if we make sure air is balanced - air will be too busy to rape infantry at all! And should something go wrong, we just whip out our stingers. GC is about strategy - and countering the opponent's air is part of that.

Exactly. At one point, the air in hitcorp was going crazy and killed everything in their sight, then kinetic started to make strategies on how to defend themselves against air, and it worked.

This is beginning to look like the Battlelog forums, everyone whining about stuff that are OP, when in fact it's not. In BF3 there's counter-measures for everything, stop whine and do something about it instead of disabling something that will make the air pretty much useless.

Imagine yourself being a pilot, where you don't know where the mobile AA are, where the soflam and javelin squads are and where the stinger guys are. You're pretty much dead as fast as you take off.

+1 *shares bag of Doritos*

[Chefcook]

Ground Guy! I want it on!

Edit: Somebody deleted his own post.... Damn. Now my answer makes no sence.

[Henidhor]

Ground Guy! I want it on!

Edit: Somebody deleted his own post.... Damn. Now my answer makes no sence.

Sorry Chef I meant to hit preview but ended up hitting submit. I typed up a post but am going to leave it overnight (as I generally try to do) and take a look at in in the morning. What I said, in addition to several other things, was that every single air guy supported 3D spotting, which shows that perhaps it might help them. I never said ground guys didn't, it's just much more divided among infantry.

[styphon]

Two stingers is enough to get a jet down. If you as a pilot even hear a lock-on sound while dogfighting you're shitting your pants and will try to dodge the stingers, then you're getting killed by the jet behind you.

Haha! a432 should be happy to hear that!

But on the topic of 3D spotting, I'm still leaning towards on. Sure soflams aren't a problem now, but if we turn it back off, who's to say that it won't become a problem again? Campaign 2 went alright (except for the air raping), and I see no reason to change it. And - if we make sure air is balanced - air will be too busy to rape infantry at all! And should something go wrong, we just whip out our stingers. GC is about strategy - and countering the opponent's air is part of that.

Exactly. At one point, the air in hitcorp was going crazy and killed everything in their sight, then kinetic started to make strategies on how to defend themselves against air, and it worked.

This is beginning to look like the Battlelog forums, everyone whining about stuff that are OP, when in fact it's not. In BF3 there's counter-measures for everything, stop whine and do something about it instead of disabling something that will make the air pretty much useless.

Imagine yourself being a pilot, where you don't know where the mobile AA are, where the soflam and javelin squads are and where the stinger guys are. You're pretty much dead as fast as you take off.

OK, here's your post but flipped:
Stop whining about loosing the ability to shoot at orange triangles. If you're good in the air you'll be able to kill the enemy anyway.

Imagine yourself being a squad leader who's done everything perfectly right, you've managed to find great cover using the perfect cammo and terrain to hide from the enemy as troops walk past you and then a jet or helo randomly presses Q on you, bringing up an orange triangle and they shoot you. Squad leaders can't hide right now, and from AIR of all things!
---

I've said this before and I'll say it again, if you want to know where something is, use TeamSpeak. That's what it is there for. If your team mates aren't letting you know where things are then you have a comms problem and using that as an excuse to have doritos on is not good enough in my book.

3D spotting was turned on to counteract SOFLAMs, not to help air kill ground units. Unfortunately 3D spotting affects too much of the game for it to be an effective way to counteract SOFLAMs. The original idea was flawed and IMO we need to turn 3D spotting off and find a better way to counteract SOFLAMs, if we still need to after all these patches.

[cairdazar]

This is one of the black and white issues where you either like it or don't and I think it's just going to have to be one way and those who don't like it will have to put up with it. Those of us who hate 3D spotting had to do just that last campaign after losing the vote to the majority.

This.

As someone who all but exclusively plays hardcore ,I have a strongly preference for not having 3d spotting.

I personally like the slower passed and/or more tactical gameplay on hardcore, no 3d spotting is one big part of that.
But I know that we hardcore players is on the minority, and that it is unlikely that normal players can be converted

I don't think 3d spotting is op it just makes for a different game then without.

Yes getting killed by jets as infantry is frustrating, but I want to remember that it was when hitcorp owned the sky. So that feels like its not really a issue when one side is not domination the air.

The solflam is bugged in so manny ways. I thought that the main problem is that they are almost indestructible and not that they are hard to find.
Do I have this the wrong way? what do the air/armor people say?

[Chefcook]

Then imagine that:

You have done everything perfectly right. You are sneaking with your squad around to your objective. Then a pesky camping sniper is hiding between two rocks with his perfect camo. He is shooting one of your buddys. He is spotting and telling via Teamspeak where he is. (between the rocks)

Now the story may continue in two ways:

3D-Spotting OFF:
Because he is perfectly hiding, he is taking out one Soldier after another, without any chance of countering that problem. A very sad and frustrating moment later, you respawn at the start. You have to tell your CO that your mission is a failure and the morale of your troops are down.

3d-Spotting ON:
Before dieing one of your soldier manages to spot the enemy and (because we are future soldiers) it is flashing on our HUD. Now we have endless possibilties to make this work. Supress with heavy fire. Sneak around and outflank. Call in an Airstrike. etc etc.

I like the 2nd option.
And i know, that styphon will disamble my post piece by piece....

[Chefcook]

Doublepost:

Armor Guy: Not be able to leave main base, because of constant SOFLAM spots (and javelins) is a frustrating "i want to do something else than play GC-BF3" moment.

[Evil_Jocey]

Doublepost:

Armor Guy: Not be able to leave main base, because of constant SOFLAM spots (and javelins) is a frustrating "i want to do something else than play GC-BF3" moment.

And the armour guy can see the lasers and report their positions in. => Use Teamspeak.

What is really more frustrating is when you are in cover with your tank (like beneath the trees on Caspian) and a jet can still take you out with a long range rocket pod attack. Because he saw the tank-dorito, nothing else. Especially these long range attacks are really frustrating. Yes, rocket pods got nerfed... and jets can still take out tanks with ease. The doritos just make it easier to kill targets on a range where you can't even see the pixels of the enemy, and that is why i voted against 3-D spotting.