Air Vehicles.

[CountBelasarius]

Did someone say Wargame: Airland Battle?

[Divine-Sneaker]

The ammo part was one I always wanted to keep from BF2 and earlier iterations. That one simple thing I believe would help alleviate the feeling many have had, that air vehicles rain continous and unstoppable death down on their team. Forcing every vehicle to be conservative with ammo usage and spend time away from their favorite cover spot to resupply leaves so many more options.

[dan1mall]

Actually,BF3 is easy enough right now.I think the jets can be OP but not always.If one of the teams have pilots from cG (Catalyst Gaming) and the other team have only pub heroes,the team with cG members is going to destroy the other one.I think they should buff the artillery,tanks and AA.Last but not least,they should add restriction of ammunition.I mean you have limited rounds and you need to resupply and refuel like in WG:ALB.

thats a pretty bad argument.
If one team has tankers from some super hotshot team, and the other has pubber tanks, then the team with the super tankers is gonna win. Same goes for infantry.

If team A is better than Team B, then Team A smashes Team B. This doesnt mean the things team A use are OP, it means team A is op.

[FisherMan9999]

Nope.If this pub tankers have Flabslabers,the pro tank drivers will get destroyed and the pub tankers will still win.Tanks can't change the game a lot but jets are able to do this.It's the same sh*t for the helicopters.

[KoffeinFlummi]

Nope.If this pub tankers have Flabslabers,the pro tank drivers will get destroyed and the pub tankers will still win.Tanks can't change the game a lot but jets are able to do this.It's the same sh*t for the helicopters.

And if the pro tank drivers have major, they are going to win. Counters.

[Sarantini]

So countering air vehicles is as hard as it is to fly them. The MAA main gun, tank main shell, tow launcher, rpg, stinger missile all have a key part of high mobility - speed. While they don't have the other key part, high maneuverability coupling them together with either good predictive aiming or good predictive positioning you can take on air vehicles with any of them.

While I agree with your post this part is not right. Im talking about jets and apart from the MAA you can't predict the flightpath of a jet with the rpg/mbt/tow unless its flying super low but why would they do that? And rpgs and tows aren't fast at all, luckily BF4 has a lot faster firing rps

All in all I think banning certain loadouts should never happen as this is highly subjective and restricts the combined arms aspect in bf. As a tanker enemy air superiority is annoying but a part of the game and the HC should maybe not attack airheavy maps like nebandanflats

[ICallIDTheft]

All of the things are fast enough and deadly enough to be a threat to air vehicles. Some of them are extremely hard to pull of, but they work.

[Necromancer]

there is a difference between theory and realism. you can shoot a jet with RPG or snipe out the pilot, but thats simply not practical without an aimpot.

i'm pretty sure that if next battle day i'll start sniping pilots from spawn i'll get banned after no more then 1 round without a second thought. Nobody will go "maybe he's just that good"?! maybe he spent 500 hours practicing it? nope.

the HC should maybe not attack airheavy maps like nebandanflats

GC battle days are tied up with the RISK map. if its necessary to attack Nebandan to win, not to loose, or you are the one being attacked then you can't go around it.

[RazY70]

All of the things are fast enough and deadly enough to be a threat to air vehicles. Some of them are extremely hard to pull of, but they work.

That's like saying we are essentially all millionaires because anyone can win the lottery.

[Jokerle]

There is not much jets can do against infantry, btw. You simply dont see them usually.
The problem for infantry are the enemy tanks that are hard to kill without armor support. This gets you pushed from the flags.

The problem is there is no backup plan if your own air force is "not present" for whatever reason and tanks get consistently strafed by jets. It usually results just in chaos, screaming and lots of accusations.
Why is there no such plan? Because it does not happen that often.

[RazY70]

The problem is there is no backup plan if your own air force is "not present" for whatever reason and tanks get consistently strafed by jets. It usually results just in chaos, screaming and lots of accusations.
Why is there no such plan? Because it does not happen that often.

It doesn't happen often because in GC there's a significant effort to balance things between armies. If however armies were imbalanced to the point of practically total air superiority by one side you'd hear different tunes. There is no backup plan against such a situation other than avoiding air maps as much as possible.

[dan1mall]

The problem is there is no backup plan if your own air force is "not present" for whatever reason and tanks get consistently strafed by jets. It usually results just in chaos, screaming and lots of accusations.
Why is there no such plan? Because it does not happen that often.

It doesn't happen often because in GC there's a significant effort to balance things between armies. If however armies were imbalanced to the point of practically total air superiority by one side you'd hear different tunes. There is no backup plan against such a situation other than avoiding air maps as much as possible.

Again though, this is the same for other divisions.
If you have one army with a terrible armor driver and another with some sort of demi-god. You wouldnt wanna play maps like karkand, sharqi, and bazaar

infantry and u dont wanna play inf only maps.

I dont see how this makes jets op.

Obviously if your own airforce isnt present, their airforce is going to kill you..

EDIT: also, back in C2, me and a4 flew against LoA and Nightwane. We were extremely outmatched, as back then I was even more crap than I am now.
We still managed to win the campaign, because every single air map, we had an entire squad dedicated to doing nothing but stingers. They sat on a backflag and just stared at the sky.
They were extremely effective, you can ask ID, as he was a core player in said stinger squads. They created a safe-zone for me and A4 to operate from, and we managed to hold our own.
The reason we dont run 4 man stinger squads now is because the airforces are (relatively) ballanced.

Also, people seem to think that if your tank gets killed by enemy airforce once or twice, that airforce is demolishing their chances at victory. Most rounds my gunner will end on a score of around 20-30 kills. Thats an average of 1 death for each player on the enemy team. Getting killed by something once a round, does not make it OP.

[RazY70]

I wasn't in C2 so I can't really comment on my experience, but wasn't this the campaign an entire group of people got switched to the other side to balance things? Didn't CallID mention specific maps were selected in which were not so predominantly air controlled? Weren't there a lot of other issues in that campaign?

I think it was already acknowledged that under GC settings jets are not as powerful as under Normal and that's a good thing. The point I was trying to make was that balancing in GC is not just limited to the equipment via certain restrictions but also on the players. That prevents campaigns from becoming one sided. I haven't seen any restrictions set on a single player from a different division because of the impact they had (something I was and am totally against btw). It's like Bock mentioned, being dominated from the air is a cascading snowball because there's not much you can do about it. Having a dedicated Stinger squad won't help you out much nowadays.

[Róka]

While I agree with your post this part is not right. Im talking about jets and apart from the MAA you can't predict the flightpath of a jet with the rpg/mbt/tow unless its flying super low but why would they do that? And rpgs and tows aren't fast at all, luckily BF4 has a lot faster firing rps

All in all I think banning certain loadouts should never happen as this is highly subjective and restricts the combined arms aspect in bf. As a tanker enemy air superiority is annoying but a part of the game and the HC should maybe not attack airheavy maps like nebandanflats

I think LoA would beg to differ. He shows great examples almost every time he plays Battlefield, that you can take down anything with basically anything. (i.e. RPG a chopper from the other side of the map, MAA leads targets to get hits, although Flummi was one of the first many of the air force has successfully TV'ed a jet during a battleday)
Like CallID said, it's not impossible, you just have to know how to react to it.

EDIT: also, back in C2, me and a4 flew against LoA and Nightwane. We were extremely outmatched, as back then I was even more crap than I am now.
We still managed to win the campaign, because every single air map, we had an entire squad dedicated to doing nothing but stingers. They sat on a backflag and just stared at the sky.
They were extremely effective, you can ask ID, as he was a core player in said stinger squads. They created a safe-zone for me and A4 to operate from, and we managed to hold our own.
The reason we dont run 4 man stinger squads now is because the airforces are (relatively) ballanced.

Also, people seem to think that if your tank gets killed by enemy airforce once or twice, that airforce is demolishing their chances at victory. Most rounds my gunner will end on a score of around 20-30 kills. Thats an average of 1 death for each player on the enemy team. Getting killed by something once a round, does not make it OP.

This, was essentially my very first post on this thread, and I don't understand why the rest of you don't get this.

I haven't seen any restrictions set on a single player from a different division because of the impact they had (something I was and am totally against btw). Having a dedicated Stinger squad won't help you out much nowadays.

Wow, if you haven't seen that yet you need to ask around more. And yes, it does help. Armies have slowly lost the extreme necessity for them though after DICE nerfed a lot of the actual, sort-of OP equipment the AF had

armies usually had 1 squad dedicated to AA, especially because of the options Air vehicles had back then (in GC we had 3D and Health regen for air, attack chopper gunner had countermeasures too, etc.) and as they removed all our perks (for example, rocket pod nerf AND tank/AA defense buff), armies stopped needing dedicated Stingers in multiple squads and multiple soflam+javs set-up ALL THE TIME.

That doesn't mean it wouldn't help to have one. You'd essentially have TWO MAAs.

[KoffeinFlummi]

I wasn't in C2 so I can't really comment on my experience, but wasn't this the campaign an entire group of people got switched to the other side to balance things? Didn't CallID mention specific maps were selected in which were not so predominantly air controlled? Weren't there a lot of other issues in that campaign?

There were, but the side people got switched to to balance to was the side with the better pilots. LoA and Sturdywings, among others.